Subscription Costs

#1

A pro subscription is somewhere in the same ball-park as a subscription for the entire suite of Adobe Creative Cloud apps… I’m struggling to get my head round that if I’m honest …

#2

Hi Paul,

We have had similar discussions before:

So check them out

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#3

The discussion George linked to seems a long time ago. I had forgotten that I had some concerns at the time, although I thought Wappler was potentially good value for the price.

Since then, Wappler has developed and improved massively. Now I have no doubt it is good value - in fact I suspect it’s worth far more than the cost to anyone who uses it seriously (and if you only use it for one or two projects, I think there are cheaper options).

After many years of subscribing, I have now cancelled my Adobe subscription (although I still make some use of older, pre-subscription versions of one or two programs). For my purposes, unlike Wappler, it was no longer good value.

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#4

The barrier for a new user is this:

  1. This price point is high, when you consider what a subscription for all adobe creative cloud apps costs. If you’re solely concerned with web development software, then maybe that argument is less of a factor but there again I might compare it to a Adobe single app subscription for Dreamweaver in that case, which is a lot cheaper. Yes Dreamweaver is behind on the server side native features but ahead in other areas.

  2. As a potential new user there’s no option to test drive the software fully, just the free/limited version. If I wanted to look at Wappler in detail I’d need a few months at least if I could find the time. I’d really need to pay for a monthly rolling subscription at the higher rate & would need the Pro version for sure to see all features.

IMO these are massive barriers & you are missing a window of opportunity. If Adobe get their act together and add up to date server behaviors back into Dreamweaver then your window of opportunity may have passed …

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assigned ben #5
#6

If Dreamweaver (which hasn’t had any new features since it added Bootstrap two years ago) does everything you need then keep using it. Value is measured by if the product does what you need it to do or not - not price. The fact that you are even trying other options suggests that DW is not meeting your needs.

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#7

FYI Dreamweaver is near to the EOL announcement (obviously it’s just my personal opinion).

See the below attachments to understand which is the investment from Adobe about this software in the last years (the development staff is always constantly decreasing):

Yes, Wappler has an high price and it is justifiable only if you have a long-term business linked to this software (like above obviously it’s just my personal opinion).

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#8

Adobe has also dropped their other two web ventures in Muse and Business Catalyst. DW hasn’t had any new features at all for a couple years and that was just adding Bootstrap.

Much more cost efficient to go with Wappler and Xfinity Photo for graphics.

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#9

I didn’t think Dreamweaver had any built-in server side capabilites now - or anything comparable to App Connect on the client side.

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#10

Apparently its rumoured to be getting some new server behaviours…not sure who started the rumours, ask Ben for clarification, he’s closer to the project than most being an ACP.

I’m not sure what it is ahead in other than maybe file management and maybe a better code editor, albeit thats not hugely impressive given it was acquired from its free brother.

#11

Wappler is worth its cost. Comparing it to the Adobe Suite is not really fair. If you were to buy Dreamweaver at a standalone price it would currently cost you £238.42 / €276.13. For that you are paying for an out of date product with little to no ability to code/provide for the modern era of web applications. Compare the price of Wappler to this and you are getting an absolute BARGAIN in all fairness…

Then throw in the support, this community, the pace of development, etc, etc…

I’m simply scratching the surface here.

:wink:

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#12

I build a few small websites a year as a side gig. I value my time at about $150 per hour when I do contract work - but on the conservative side lets say half that - $75.

Given the feature set of Wappler and the ease of constructing pages and grids, and forms, and rows, and columns and containers and nav bars and routers…etc!! I reckon it easily will save me 6-8 hours per project. At conservative figures that more than pays for itself in one project!

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#13

I’ve not seen any rumors about adding server behaviors back to DW for the past few years. All they did was to update their old server behaviors panel so it’s not showing any js errors in the latest versions of DW.
There are no signs of Adobe developers working on updated version of the server behaviors in the Adobe pre-release forum as well :slight_smile:
Reading through the pre-release forums/announcements i doubt anything more than updating Bootstrap and Live View will be done for DW before they decide to finally kill it.

#14

Anyway I think the main problem is with the “subscription” model (obviously it’s the same thing with other developers like Adobe, not only with Wappler); if you don’t renew, you will lose everything… I don’t pretend to have access to the new versions but to be able to use what I paid up to that point should be the right thing (as with Pinegrow). I would personally add the possibility to purchase the Wappler standalone version without a subscription by linking it to the version (1, 2, 3…), with a payment provided only for updates to subsequent versions. It’s just my opinion…

#15

Hi @michele,
Thanks for sharing your opinion with us!
Unfortunately we are not planning to offer standalone version of Wappler. The days when you (not personally you, but anybody out there) used to purchase the software on a CD are long gone.

We are living in 21st century, in the times of SAAS licensing and the SAAS model allows us to continue developing the product and keep it up to date in fast update cycles, following the Wappler Philosophy
Also unlike many other services/tools we do not keep you hooked paying monthly fees just to have your apps and websites alive :slight_smile: and you don’t lose them when you cancel your subscription.

There will always be people who consider the pricing too high, but as @brad mentioned:

Value is measured by if the product does what you need it to do or not - not price.

So if the work you are doing does not justify purchasing a Wappler license, probably it’s just not the right tool for you. Actually we do not expect that our pricing will fit everybody out there :slight_smile:

#16

Then I’m not sure what Ben was refering to in post 7, which seems to imply something else:
https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2610510

But then again I’m skeptical - the Adobe DW team are hugely secretive (which doesn’t help anyone or anything). Then when they do produce something its usually nothing to shout about these days.

#17

Teodor, I never mentioned “software on a CD” in my post :grin:

I mean that without the “active subscription”, you cannot anymore use the “pro” functions (updated until the last day of the annual active subscription) on the websites built previously.

#18

@the_coder
I don’t know, maybe Ben will share where he gets the info from :smiley:
I don’t think they are secretive, reading the posts from the guys managing the pre-release forums i think they just don’t have a plan and nothing innovative to offer.

@michele that’s why i said i am not mentioning you :slight_smile: just saying the “purchasing software on CD” are long gone.

#19

Let’s do some math (in Euro): Subscription to DW CC will cost you 290,28 excl. VAT. Then you will need some extensions to make it work like you want it. This used to cost me an annual 400 Euro’s extra (excl. VAT).
First thing I did when I finally figured out how to work with Wappler (Thanks Teodor, Ben and all others), was cancel my DW subscription since working/building with Wappler is far, far more advanced than DW and in the end it is cheaper as well since it has everything you may need.

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#20

It’s a no-brainer really. Im not sure why DW still exists at the premium subscription price it charges for just the 1 app. All I can assume is those who are invested in all the CC app software use it because its available.

UK
DW £198 a year
Wappler £171.00 a year (Education pro for freelancers)

Seems a bargain to me given the components/workflow included in Wappler.

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