You keep releasing more and more functions yet your documentation is not anywhere near in line with the functionality. Documentation is also hugely outdated and assumes a user know what you did in the dmx days. Never used dmx in Dreamweaver.
It has taken me almost a day so far to get a simple challenge/response function to work, nevermind the rest of the registration process. Still doesn’t work even though I built it based on the documentation. I posted for help and still not been helped.
I could have hardcoded the lot in around two hours in vue.js or React.
I built the whole register, login, recover password in under an hour and a half using React Studio and Cognito / Lambda.
This is supposed to be a tool that lets you create MVPs and POC in Quicktime. I got very excited when I saw wappler and couldn’t wait to test it and then get my team to adopt it.
Stop releasing new functions, fix the basics and update your manuals.
The basics are broken or your instructions are. Either way, it is not a commercial product, only good for frontend layouts (might as well have used Pinegrow).
Whilst I agree that some documentation has not been updated and would confuse a new user, most parts are still perfectly valid.
Wappler is made by a small team, if they spent more time on documentation then updates and features would suffer. Perhaps an idea would be to replace one weeks feature update with documentation updates or tutorials @Teodor@George? Repeat this once every other month and we would have a happy balance of features and supporting documents.
I can do this too in Wappler, either in PHP or Node.js. The difference is that I have perhaps a year and a bit’s worth of experience using Wappler (not DMXzone days). In my first month this would have taken me around a day or two. It’s part of the learning curve of any new tool or framework.
Yes you are right there is a learning curve associated with any new tool adoption. But, you expect the basics to work according to the manuals. Most often used routines should be a click of a button away or incredibly simple to setup when following instructions.
My topic:
I have it working now but I had to fudge my way through it.
I have had a whiskey and have calmed down a bit. This tool can be a game changer in the startup world where POCs need to be done quickly and easily.
I guess my main frustration is the following: lack of or incorrect documentation. This coupled with a community that is still small so their is not a lot of advice floating around in stackexchange etc.
Example: what is “repeat” in the server side and why do I need it when creating a login. It would be nice to have an API lookup so we can understand all the functions, their uses and where we should use them.
The basic validation does not work as the dynamic events fire before the validation. Hence me having had to do a run around.
Do you understand what makes a system build a tribe and what makes it just another tool?
Your reply as an Ambassador is the later.
max_gb on the other hand is an ambassador that will help create a tribe. His reply is spot on and made me not want to push for a refund. His reply is also why I still as we speak am using wappler.
As and ambassador why don’t you help them with the documentation and help resolve issues instead of being confrontational with a paying client that is unhappy. Which BTW I had the right to be. I am paying and need resolution on an issue.
Let me sell you a pair of shoes and then give you one shoe two sizes smaller than the other and when you complain one of my staff will get angry with you.
If you want to discuss, we can do this in many more ways. No problem !
yes I read it and I wrote just like other people to help you. However, you are now moving the subject to different places.
The basic validation does not work as the dynamic events fire before the validation. Hence me having had to do a run around.
Do you understand what makes a system build a tribe and what makes it just another tool?
If you are sure there was bug, you need to explain it clearly so that everyone is reproduce this error again. otherwise nobody will accept it as a bug. Or if you are talking about a very specific situation, you need to explain it very well.
Preparing documents is not as easy as you think. For example, Framework 7 updates very quickly and wappers update very quickly in the same way. For this reason, Teodor prepares the basic examples.
If you don’t want to experience such a thing, you will know your shoe size and know what you need.
Apart from these, you have only created 2 question titles so far. You also got answers to these. Wappler is a tool that presents other software languages visually. So javascript, php etc. If you know, you can solve problems in a simple way. You won’t need to put a lot of effort into it. Apart from these, you will see that many people will help you if you ask more calmly about unfamiliar matters and be patient.
Everyone needs to take a step back and answering a request with a community pile-on is not at all helpful to anyone!
@ray you are not alone I have previously raised the issue about documentation.
I wish I didn’t have to ask the community for help, because I know as soon as one of the team gets on I know I am about to get a lecture about how great Wappler is and any issue are my fault because I should have known xyz - sure I completely agree, if the documentation was complete and up to date!
No doubt for posting this I will get another lecture about how the documentation is just fine.
Wappler is a great tool, but unfortunately the small team no matter how hard they work (and I can clearly see how hard they work) are just far to close and emotionally invested (rightly so) to provide proper support.
This is not DMX zone, and we can clearly see it is a close knit community - but it needs to grow!
I really hope that the Wappler team bring on board community support specialist and trained help desk provider who can see everything without the rose colored glasses, update the documentation is able to provide feedback they will allow themselves to listen to and help grow the community.
I also hope that the Wappler team in their growth bring onboard outside advisors who can keep them on track, shift the cultural paradigm so they can see what many of us newbies see. Why? Well because like you I too want to be able to keep using Wappler, but I also want to know that it will be here in 2 years time when myself and my team will need it the most!
Well, let’s talk about it. It seems to me that you are looking at the problem exclusively from a consumer point of view and therefore do not see a solution. Are you trying to solve a problem from the series “how to live with only one hot dog for a whole year and not starve to death?”, the answer is “this is impossible!”.
You partially disclose the problem in your message. You write:
And this is true. Wappler is good, not even that, he it’s damn good. It is better than many solutions that are in a different price category. It provides a lot of opportunities. And all this for 50$ a month.
But it turns out that this is not enough for some. We need more. People say: “While maintaining all existing technical capabilities, please provide uninterrupted, first-class technical support. And Yes, don’t forget about discounts!” But all this is not possible purely economically.
What are the possible options?
On the market there are products with outstanding technical capabilities and incredible technical support. I haven’t tried it myself, because they I can’t afford them, but I think if you ask them for technical support, they can even call you instead of an alarm clock in the morning. These products cost 2000$ a month or more. Are you sure you want Wappler to Change course in this direction? I’m definitely not.
There are products that attracted investors for the rapid development and active expansion on the market. Such companies are quickly moving to corporate tracks. Everything is planned. Everything is in order. Managers count every penny. Updates are issued once a year, maximum once every six months. To avoid missing a single client request, an army of trainees is sent to technical support and given a script book. And on your problem, the dialog starts like this: “hi, don’t worry, I’ll help you solve your problem! Let’s start from the beginning, check your computer is turned on?” Just forget about direct communication with the development team that you have now. All according to corporate standards. Are you sure you want Wappler to Change course in this direction? I’m definitely not.
Economics is a stubborn thing. In order for the balance to converge, someone always has to pay.
What can be done?
I think the solution lies in the conscious community. And this conscious is manifested in your voluntary choice. You voluntarily decide to use Wappler. You can voluntarily help another member of the Community when you have the opportunity. You can voluntarily stop using Wappler if you are not satisfied with something.
What are the costs of this approach?
The learning curve is steep. It can be difficult at the beginning of training. You may not get an instant answer to your question or a solution to your problem. You’ll have to be patient.
But all this is pays off by a powerful tool at the price of 50$ and the incredible speed that you will get in everything after you master the tool and establish communication with the community.
First of all, thank you for thoughtfully responding with consideration! Some good points made here.
Not quite sure I agree with the assumption that you have to have one option but not the other. All organsations grow to survive and I assume this is what Wappler wants to do and inherit with that are some of the challenges they may now be experiencing. Conversations like this are an indication of growing pains and paradigm shifts that happen occur because of new market growth.
There are great examples where both are done very well and evolution always occurs because of growth.
I would like to see documentation improved and it goes without saying it reduces the burden on the team to have to answer questions or respond to support request.
I am, like most user, cognoscente that really we are using an app which is only 3 years old and is evolving weekly, and in many respects is still in startup mode where bootstrapping guides many of the decisions. I am sure documentation will occur once stabilization of features established.
I don’t think you would want any of these. The closer connection and communication you have with the developers in the community the better for the product.
See what happened to Bubble when they got some investments - no more you can see the founders in the community helping people. You wait for small feature integration months after months and hope they add it in the next updates.
I think people at Wappler (DMXzone) know what they are doing. They’ve been doing this for the past 20 years after all.
Without wishing to contribute to a ‘community pile-on’, I think the comment about ‘proper support’ is a little unfair. From time to time I make use of the support teams of various software companies. Typically there’s a ticketing system which will result in a reply within 24 hours or so, usually from a trained and polite support staff member. If you’re lucky, the issue will be resolved efficiently; if you’re unlucky, it may take several days or week to resolve the issue (or before you give up in frustration). There are other companies (typically larger ones) where direct suppot is almost non-existent.
There are certainly times when questions here get overlooked or prove difficult to resolve - perhaps because of misunderstanding or lack of clarify - but generally I think the support is the best I have experienced from any software company. The Wappler team go to great lengths to solve issues, demonstrating exceptional knowledge of a huge range of technical areas.
I daresay there will be come a time when a ‘proper’ support system is put in place, but I’m not particularly looking forward to it. Ideally, a solution would be copy+Teodor+paste, but we’ll probably have to wait a few years before that’s possible.
This is a natural growth progression for an business the founders can’t be everywhere all the time, unless of course you decide to stay small and niche, there is nothing wrong with that either. In fact AwareIM is another node / low code java app builder which has stayed small but has a dedicated group of customers and advocates.
But yes Bubble was great when you could sponsor plugins and talk to the founders about the requirements. But I wouldn’t hold it against them if they want to grow to exit, there is nothing wrong with that. After all a few of us here building apps with that very intention.
Doesn’t have to be onerous and If done right can eliminate the frivolous requests with a pointing to existing documentation. My team having been using a certain support desk for 8 years now and over that time we have built a cache of common requests and solutions which can be quickly delivered within the hour. But it does take time to build that documentation and store it in a central location.
Did I say documentation again
Early adopters of products always get nostalgic of the good old days. As @williamj pointed out with Bubble early adopters miss the good old days, but businesses move on.
Hey who know few years from now I may miss the gold old days when I could have a good old robust discussion with Teodor .
Haha! I don’t think he will ever work support agent again
He left DMXzone for becoming a front end developer. Will tell him you miss him next time I meet him.
@Ray I have posted something very similar last week and I’m curious. Almost a Year after this message, how you finally ended up learning and being confident with the tool? What has been your process. Return of experience are very useful.
but hey getting used to it now.
great for new users!
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