Node and Docker Survey

Coffee Lounge
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The forum seems to be pretty much dominated by posts and reports related to Node and Docker technologies

I am intrigued to know if this is because everyone is using node and/or docker or if this is due to the level of issues being experienced as they are relatively new technologies added to Wappler so I thought I would start this survey

  1. Which platform is your primary platform for web app development i.e. the platform you currently use most
  • PHP
  • ASP (classic)
  • .NET
  • Node

0 voters

Do you use Docker as your Primary method of web app deployment. By primary assume this is your most commonly used method currently

  • yes, I primarily use docker
  • No, I primarily use FTP or other technology

0 voters

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Oops…too tired and pressed .net instead of node…

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Only 29 votes from the entire community???
Come on folks, this is important!

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@Hyperbytes Good idea, interesting question. I was assuming that the node users (like me) were just louder due to it being recently added and having more issues.

Seems like most people are use Node though

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@george isn’t this aggregated data you could retrieve from sentry?

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He may be able to receive aggregated data but not primary use I suspect.

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No, in Sentry we get only error reports and crashes.

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That’s a pity. So you don’t have any analytics on usage then?

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I would be surprised, but of course I don't know.

I think this could be a correct assumption.

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I too suspect that php and not-docker are the most used techs when we speak about total wappler sites including low or no maintenance sites.

But for the recent ones being built I would assume nodejs is the winner due to novelty and additional features.

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Yes, i think you may be correct, the more experienced users are the ones who primarily have responded. I suspect of the 100s of more casual users contributed then the picture would be very different but if people cant be bothered to get involved in a question like this, perhaps they don’t deserve a voice?
I am primarily a PHP user at present but will probably start using node more once i am sure all, the gremlins are removed and take it from there. Also I am not a big Docker fan but with Node it seems to be a logical partner technology.
Been in the software development game for 40+ years, I don’t jump just because I can, i do it when I am confident that it is the best way forward.

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I add my 2 cents.

I agree with @Hyperbytes.

Being not a coder I use Wappler in only visual way. I use for tbe moment PHP/FTP configuration… but I could use also ASP… because Wappler do everything on Server Connect side snd I never touch the Server Sife code.

Obviously also from my point of view it is important that new technologies are implemented in Wappler and I am sure that Node.js and Docker are the best direction to go.

By the way I m now trying Digital Ocean docker servers and some S3 provider (DO and Wasabi) and S3 capability opened new sectors for me. And I am sure I m going to use Node.js in a docker machine for next eapplications

So maybe a point is missing in your survey:

  • I am using PHP now but I m planning to use Node.js in tbe future.

I suppose that this point would be clicked a lot from the community.

By the way I think that Wappler must be at the edge of new technologies for developers. Then community members will start to adopt them in different time according their needs. But for sure major of people will move in this direction…

This is obviously point of view of a no coder like me…

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Yes, that's exactly why I didn't add it, i wanted a snapshot of now, not a prediction for the future

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Very interesting survey Hyperbytes but we are missing a few important details in that survey as it does not actually tell us what type of dev. they are and what type of app they build.

And there is probably many more not using NODE/DOCKER technology yet as they are not buidlding advanced or complex app, this is my case actualluy.

I noticed that some folks here make it sound like if PHP was almost a thing of the past, but it is far from beeing the case!!

And another thing to consider for me is that my hosting company does not provide Docker yet (I have a reseller account there).
But I am learngin a lot about those recent technologies - Thanks to Waappler! - and I know that one day I will go for it when everything is working parfectly or as you say "i am sure all, the gremlins are removed ".

And another point: I read a lot of post here about all the difficulties, issues and complex stuff and thing not working as they used to after switcing to NODE/DOCKER that it is pushing away from using it, at least for now.

But all in all I do appreciate that Wappler implement new stuff and technologies.

P.S.: I still hope Wappler team implement “templating” for PHP not only Node:)

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Brian you did an interesting survey. I haven’t seen this topic before, I noticed it only today.

Your question has quite a lot of clarifications that relate to both the developer and the projects that are being developed. If you take me and my projects. Now I work on mobile app projects, and before that I did CRM projects for several companies for their personal needs. All CRM projects were based on PHP for very specific reasons:

  • this is a proven and very stable solution that perfectly copes with the tasks set and has an excellent implementation in Wappler.

  • projects use a small number of heavy queries, so PHP looks more interesting in terms of performance. As far as I know, node js likes small light queries, and can digest them in large numbers.

  • the prevalence of PHP in terms of hosting and extensions.

Therefore, despite the fact that PHP is very often buried, I think that it will live and be used for a very, very, very long time. It has too much history, too large a base of web apps and web sites that use it, and it is too firmly on its feet.

If we talk about new technologies. I am not a programmer in the past, but I am very actively immersed in this science and Wappler plays a key role in this. I can say the following. The more I study, the better I understand how much the Wappler team are visionaries in technical terms.

Docker. In some cases, it can simply save the situation, or at least make life easier. At the moment, I don’t use it because all my projects have enough regular hosting, or they are hosted on the customer’s local server at all.

Node JS. Definitely an excellent technical solution. Especially if we consider mobile and desktop applications that require full-fledged work with data on the client side. Also, when switching to the JS stack, the WebAssembly technology looks very interesting, which can work not only on the front in the browser, but also on the server in Node JS. So Yes, there are a lot of amazing things waiting for us in the future. And I think Wappler will happy surprise us with its solutions more than once

PS while writing about data management on the client side, the question was spinning in my head about the support for PouchDB in Wappler, which many of us are looking forward to, in today’s update. However, then I noticed that on the forum this question arose not only in my head… :wink: It is a pity that support for PouchDB is not planned in the near future. Full-fledged data management on the client side is a real pain…

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Needed to keep it simple or it becomes so diluted with options it becomes meaningless

Agree 100%, PHP still runs approximatley 80% of websites, it's here for a long time yet

Absolutely. Many of us use shared/ reseller platforms and many don't support docker. I include myself in that position. Docker = more expense for me

Yes, that was kind of why I put the survey out. I got the impression that these so called simplifying solutions were actually causing as many problems as they solved. I still user FTP on a day to day basis.
I wanted to assess if this was the direction the core Wappler users wanted to go or if the direction was being driven by the team and a few members who were of the "got to have the latest technology" mindset
That's why feedback from the users who currently sit in the background and just get on with it are so important

Absolutely, lots of life left in PHP yet, it gets faster all the time and more and more solid. I may dabble with Node but certainly won't ditch PHP

I certainly see the benefits for some users but gut feeling is most on here are developing web apps so this probably isn't too relevant for many

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I am very confused about the context of your words. I'll explain what I mean. I don't think that users of Wappler should be evaluated as a homogeneous community of developers. I think there are basically two groups of Wappler users:

  • developers who use Wappler to develop standard solutions (websites, web applications) with a little customization.
  • developers who were looking for a tool to create their own innovative ideas and projects, build their own startups.

I myself belonged to the second group when I first met Wappler. And although the desire to create something new, exciting and interesting has not disappeared, but now I use Wappler mainly to build standard products for customers.

And this flexibility is the amazing value of Wappler. If necessary, Wappler is a noble hard worker - a hammer in your hands, which you use to nail up nails. But if you are not satisfied with simple nails and inspiration is over the edge, Wappler easily turns into a incredible advanced tool with which you can make truly large-scale and meaningful projects.

The goal of being the best among hammers is a good and noble goal. But the goal - to be a tool that developers can use to light up stars - is a completely different level of aspiration.

And if you look at all the new features that Wappler introduces, you can easily see that these are well-thought-out engineering solutions that you can use to implement large-scale and strong projects. And to be precise, without which you simply can not do in some cases.

This question is again about the complexity of the project. You may need to manage data on the client side and in the web application. Of course, this will not be a typical project, but something more complex and interesting.

And Yes, I didn't put it quite right. Saying "many of us" I was referring to those who are currently developing mobile and desktop applications.

However, I think you underestimate the interest of users in mobile development right now. It's big. But many are waiting for it to become easier to use. And the functionality I mentioned is just one of those features that make development more accessible to everyone. Because in mobile development (including PWA applications), data management on the client side may be necessary even in a relatively simple application.

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Exactly, that's why it was omitted and the strict definitions applied, probably most will use it eventually but then should i have to add options for next project, soon, in the future, eventually etc. I guess you see my point.
Or maybe we will all forget about node and move to GO when support for that that is release, we can never predict the future can we?