There is a lot of documentation - but I can certainly see why people find it difficult to find the answers they’re looking for. Eg there is https://docsdev.wappler.io/, https://docs.wappler.io/, videos, including those mentioned in the previous post, as well as this forum of course.
One of the main problems is that as Wappler changes so frequently, the documentation becomes out of date quickly. In many cases, the odd tweak to the UI doesn’t make much difference to how things work and won’t cause any confusion - particularly if you already know Wappler. However, if you don’t, I suspect even a minor change can cause a lot of confusion. I think people tend to assume the documentation is correct and if what they see on their screen doesn’t correspond to the screenshots they’re studying, they assume they’re doing something wrong. Perhaps after several hours of frustration they ask for help and all’s well (except for the missing hours).
Ideally, all documentation would be kept in sync with the current version, but that’s not currently realistic. A relatively simple improvement would be to date the documentation articles or indicate what version Wappler was at when the documentation was created. This would at least alert the user that there might be discrepancies. Even better, a short note could be added to indicate more recent changes to the UI etc. which differ from those in the article.
Sad but good to hear, and I think it’s important for the team to also listen to people who are not long Time users or super loyal to the tool.
ALL the people I have invited to Wappler are telling me the same than what you wrote. From my side I do my best not to give up but to be honest, it’s super slow and waste a lot of time dealing with simple things.
Interesting comment from a Dreamweaver and an old DMXzone user (since 2014), familiar with Server Connect and App Connect would be happy to hear what issues did you find with Wappler after using DMXzone extensions in DW?
I’ve been following this thread so thought I’d add my comments.
I’ve been working with PHP since around the year 2000 (ASP before that) and used DMXzone and Interakt for many, many years.
I see Wappler as the perfect solution to the Dreamweaver/Extensions mess that we put up with for so long. But I don’t see it as a no-code tool. You do need to have some coding experience and understand at least the fundamentals of how code works, how web pages are constructed, how hosting works, CSS, etc. But you certainly don’t need to be an expert in any of those things because Wappler really does do all the heavy lifting for you.
For me it’s an excellent tool to massively speed up the development process. Yes, I need to know how forms work. When to use POST and when to use GET (so know what the difference is). How security works (sessions, cookies, etc.) but I don’t need to know the actual code to use any of that because Wappler does it for me. This makes it incredibly quick and equally reliable. I don’t need to remember what I named the variables, they’re there in a list.
I don’t want it to be a no-code tool because that would limit it enormously. I want the ultimate flexibility.
So if you like Bubble, or other no-code tools, then that’s great but I know you will soon reach their limits and wish you’d learned more coding skills and spent more time with a tool like Wappler.
I spent a good few months struggling to understand how App Connect and Server Connect work but once I understood, there is no limit. And now I create complex forms which manipulate data, upload files, etc. in very little time.
Yes, the docs do need updating and there are certainly times when I look at something in Wappler and wonder what it does exactly but a quick post here usually gives me the answer in no time.
Please don’t think Wappler is a no-code tool. It’s advanced software which speeds up the dev process and creates beatiful and reliable code for you and you can do whatever you like to that to make sure you have exactly what you want.
Even if you remember that several time I asked for clear documentation or video Tutorial for DMXZone extension even. At the early stage when you made videos without any voice just mouse click sound was there I asked to add voice on the tutorial so that people can understand clearly. I used Interakt tools, DMXZone tool, Webassist tools but I will say the Interakt was the best in clear documentation. I don’t want to be fully no code for sure but certenly expect good documentation.
I too have followed this thread with interest and I think there are a lot of good points made here.
I have used several other development platforms in the past and am very familiar with database development, so when I stubbled across Wappler about 3 months ago, I immediately saw a lot of potential. I had been looking for something like this for several years. I was excited to jump in and learn how to use it and cancelled another subscription I had.
But, after stumbling along for the last 3 months, I’m am still a long way from being able to do what I did with other software and what I would like to be able to do. The lack of comprehensive documentation and the simplistic (and outdated) tutorials and the lack of response to questions even on this forum, have caused a lot of frustration for me as a new user to Wappler.
Others have expressed great success in posting questions here, but I have not had much success. I’m not sure what I’m doing wrong. A couple examples where I’ve been left hanging (if anyone has input, please post):
Some other things I would like to know how to do are:
Show parent/child relations in a paged grid/table (For example, show rows of orders with a plus icon that would expand the row to show the order details.)
Add/Edit records in parent/child relation (i.e. Invoice, with line items)
Create dynamic tabs of user content. For example open a new tab in the page when the user clicks on a menu item and that tab would have dynamic content and live for the remaining life cycle of the app
Create and print PDF reports
These are basic building blocks for most web applications and should be possible at least with a little work to get functioning. So far, I have not been able to figure them out. From my experience, the time saved with the low code approach and the visual designer have long been lost in the time spent looking for answers and trying to figure out how to do certain things. I know Wappler is loosing sales because of these things. (I know of a certain organization that needs and is looking for a good development platform and would purchase a company license for several developers, if it wasn’t for the lack of documentation and support.)
That said, I don’t know of anything better out there (I’ve looked hard) so I’m still here, hoping for some improvements. If there is something I can do to make it a better tool, I would like to know. I still think it has a lot of potential and hope that it can one day be my ‘go-to’ for app development.
What a fascinating thread this has turned out to be!
So @Teodor, @George, I sense you have some clear input from users and referers that moving development and documentation towards ease-of-use could seriously increase your user base and revenue!
Same here, people I have sent to Wappler where enthusiastic by the concept but after few days being lost in tutorial and documentation, not even able to achieve something simple after few hours (and complaining the 7 days trial is a non sense for such a tool), they gave up. More documentation and tutorial would have make those people becoming paying customers as Wappler is what they need, filling the gaps from other no code apps we’ve mentioned above.
Well, as @Antony mentioned it’s a product and strategic decision here, at least the feedbacks are on the table.
Reading some of the comments, no disrespect intended here.
No ones playing for Chelsea (insert your team here) after their first kick of a football. My journey from Dreamweaver and DMX was put off, by me, I really didn’t want to switch, was happy with my tool-set. Realising how silly I was, in hindsight, cost our business time and money, both wasted trying to accomplish what Wappler could achieve with just a little effort and exploration. Maybe its my nature my first ‘real’ PC was a Commodore Pet with no manual… I was lucky to inherit it from Heathrow airport as a kid. I also was lucky to get my hands on a DEC Vax 4000, in the same way, no documentation. I ended up working with VAX and VMS for years with no qualifications, simply hands on experience. We have all had journeys in learning new things. Its all about how you approach the situation. Now a months subscription is not expensive so if the trial is too short go for a months worth for a few Euros. Nothing is gained by simply giving up at the first hurdle… Jump right in! Deep end first if you need to, this community is a life jacket if you can’t swim, someone will rescue you.
And yes my ramblings can be a load of b*llox but I stand by them, and by Wappler, and the Developers, and the Community, and am thankful for all. Put your trust in them. Ask questions. Don’t be shy, the rewards are worth the effort, and you’ll only get out what you put in…
I got your points (and I’m a paying customer too, even if I found the trial too short and didn’t understand why it was marketed this way).
But I also (and others did the same) share feedback from others who tried out Wappler.
In every business it’s important to get customers feedback and remove friction. Customers today are ok with steep learning curves but very few have your profile. Most want to get a decent onboarding and efficient documentation / academy / tutorial, etc.
Look at 99% of the SaaS companies (in the no code / low code industry or any other) and you will see that this is a key in order to grow your user base and MRR, etc.
I agree @GlobaticoLabs but I doubt many of us have held our mothers hand for years. Maybe for those that want their hands held and everything click and collect then Wappler may not be for them. My shoes probably won’t suit the next person, their shoes may be a different size, they may not like my shoe type… Etc, etc. Will leave it there for what I have to say, not hear to cause animosity sir.
I’ve created a product with Wappler that, to my clients, feels as complex as Wappler does to app builders.
My market is non technical workshop leaders.
I know I have to spend much of the next 6 months creating so many how-to videos, running zoom trainings, and listening to my clients to learn how to make my product’s learning curve as easy and gentle as possible.
I cannot and will not either step away from that responsibility or pass it on to anyone else…
DOMXzone App Connect Manual - this is something that is helping me to wrap my head around Wappler a bit more. As a new Wappler user I didn’t quite understand the whole DMXzone/App Connect side of things, mostly how the interface works. This documentation is helpful.
Question for the Wappler gurus - is the above manual a solid start for learning the DMXzone/App Connect side of Wappler for new users just trying to grasp the interface of the editor?
Building a complete Facebook clone in 10 minutes or less will be my next goal lol.
I wouldn’t rely on the DMXZone DW Extension tutorials. They are over four years old (before Wappler even existed) and may just confuse things even more for yourself.
Even the getting started course is a bit out of date in some areas. I stopped by Wappler subscription for a while due to a lack of good, up-to-date documentation. The Unique Ideas course I bought leaves a lot to be desired. I’m a pretty good, HTML, PHP, SQL coder and though Wappler would be a good tool to speed up my work. However trying to follow your documentation and videos leaves a lot to be desired.
I think a return to the DMX Zone style video tutorials would be great! Can’t remember there being so many calls for documentation or tutorials back then… Everything was covered extremely well. Who put them together? If it ain’t broke don’t fix it comes to mind… The wiki style really doesn’t work. A straight forward grid of videos is the way to go.
@TonyTee so you have your subscription since August 2018 and up until now (August 2021) you have not learned how to use Wappler?
Our own documentation covers pretty much all parts of Wappler and the Unique Ideas Wappler getting started course covers everything, and still you say you haven’t learned how to use Wappler in 3 years?
Ken’s video series cover all the things you need to get up and running with Wappler, and any difference with Wappler 4 which has been released recently, is only UI changes.
Ben’s video tutorials on youtube also cover lots of basics and more advanced options.
Brian’s tutorials even for older versions also cover some really advanced options.
The logic behind everything is the same.
I am really curious about what is missing for you in your 3 years of experience with Wappler.
As explained above, we are currently updating our docs, so soon there won’t be any difference between what you see in the docs and the actual Wappler UI.
would be happy to hear what issues did you find with Wappler after using DMXzone extensions in DW?
