OK... I'll Start Since I'm not Shy

So here I am in an actual cafe sipping coffee and thinking…

Now that Adobe’s Dreamweaver is history, I use PineGrow to design initial web layout templates because of its easy and extensive design capabilities and then import them into Wappler to add any backend interactive and/or database functions my clients may need using its powerful features. And I’m thinking what if someday these features are merged into Wappler to create THEEEE most user friendly design, layout and database-driven web development environment the world has ever seen.

Then I realize I’m out of coffee and go back to my office.


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Hi @randyrie, you do realise that most web developers, application developers, and IT people, are somewhat socially awkward which is why computers make more sense to them than human interaction does. Luckily for you I am not as good at my job than others, so I might be slightly less socially impaired. I mention the above because you must be wondering why nobody has answered you. haha

I would love to ask you a favour, I think it would be a great and fun idea, could you send through a design you have done using Pinegrow, then I would personally like to redevelop your design entirely through Wappler Design View only, this will show me as well as other users of this community that either Wappler can achieve what Pinegrow can just as easily, or it can’t. If it can great, we all learn something, if it can’t then the Wappler guys will see where their software needs improvement. It’s a win win situation.
If you have more than one Pinegrow ONLY design then we could do a video walkthrough of the recreation process in Wappler which would help many community members I would imagine.


You should be able to fully design in Wappler initially. If not possible maybe you can post what functionalities are you missing so we can see how we can improve Wappler to become Nr 1 solution for design and data integration

I’ve been a Pinegrow user since almost it’s beginning and it’s evolved immensely and is easily my tool of choice for page design/layout. I really want to use a single application for both layout/design and development and so previously suggested a collaboration between the two products. At the moment, Pinegrow really does win hands down for the designing but, apart from excellent tools for creating Wordpress themes, it doesn’t offer anything for development.

I would love to see a video showing the building of a website with Wappler as I can only think I’m missing some key features because it’s just not easy at all to build with.

Well if you could supply us with a Pinegrow only design I would love to try and redevelop it in Wappler and will upload a video of how I go about it. You can post a link to a Pinegrow design here or a zip file if you like.

The designs are not particularly complicated but Wappler just doesn’t give anywhere near the amount of CSS options. Wappler seems to just show the same as the Firebug/Web Developer browser plugin whereas Pinegrow really does give you all the options including Flex Grid, adding classes, etc. Hopefully you can show me something in Wappler I just didn’t know existed.

Do you have a Pinegrow design you have done over the years that i could try to recreate @sitestreet

OK. How would you like it? Give you a URL?

Yes please or a zip file with the dev files and structure from pinegrow

I think that Wappler also requires at least the basics knowledge of bootstrap and how it works to be fully used to its potential. With Wappler the more you know about bootstrap the more easy it is to use. I can see Wappler being more complicated for those that don’t know at lusty the basics of bootstrap.

Although I have very limited experience with pinegrow I find Wappler ea sitter to use groom start to finish. I think once you have as many hours into Wappler as pinegrow it will become significantly easier for you.


I have pretty good Bootstrap knowledge and use it in all my designs but Wappler does still seem to be lacking a lot. I think Wappler has nailed the development aspect and Pinegrow has nailed the design. This is why combining the two would, in my opinion, produce the product to replace all others.

I would personally rather that Pinegrow remain a separate entity to Wappler or Dmxzone could have just as easily stuck with Dreamweaver instead of creating Wappler. The reason Wappler started was because Dmxzone was tired of having to develop within the constraints of Dreamweaver so if they joined forces with Pinegrow we would be back to where we began. I will rather help Wappler in every possibly way to become better than Pinegrow. This community gives us a direct line to the creators and means that we as users can dictate exactly how this application turns out in the end.


I know what you mean but I’m not suggesting Wappler works with Pinegrow and the two remain separate like DMXZone is with Dreamweaver, I would love the two products to become one. Then you would have all the features and not be relying on the other product you have no control over.

I agree 100% with @sitestreet. I do my designs in PineGrow (even use it to convert my old legacy PHP sites done in Dreamweaver), then open in Wappler to add server connections, dB functions, and page interactions. Works slick.

To experiment further, I worked backward… importing the code where I wanted my forms to display on certain webpages to save formatting time. Surprisingly, it worked, retaining their formatting, but not any functionality. So now I have to figure out how to add the functionality (email, insert, edit/delete, etc.) and learn which is the quicker process: import & convert from the old or use Wappler to create the form new and then use Pinegrow to fine tune the formatting to my particular design specs (I am primarily a web designer and NOT a web programmer).

I also like @psweb’s challenge to take a PineGrow design and work on it to achieve the ultimate design/functionality goal. How & where would I send or share my PineGrow dev/test site so we all could tear at it to develop a best-practice process?

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@randyrie could you please explain what kind of formatting (for your forms) do you miss in Wappler? These are bootstrap 4 forms and Wappler includes whatever bootstrap 4 framework offers as styling.
Not to mention you could style whatever is required using the CSS panel.

Have the Wappler team downloaded and worked with Pinegrow at all? I would strongly urge you to try it out. I’m flitting back and forth between the two programs and the difference in how they help you design the page is immense.

Well, I’ve tested it a while back but found the UI very overwhelmed and not intuitive for me - all elements appear all over the screen no matter what your selection is.
Still I don’t get what part of form styling is missing as we have included every possible styling option the bootstrap 4 framework offers.

You only say this because you want wappler to be like the tool you used to work with. Which it understandable.

But from my testing with wappler, you can do anything you want and nothing is custom to it. Its all css something you must understand to use properly.
For example if wappler doesn’t give you a color picker with enough verity you should easly past any color code you found on the web.

It’s a lot more than just form styling. My perfect world would see Wappler and Pinegrow joining forces to create a killer product. Or somehow let Wappler allow a third-party application to handle the design (can’t really see this as being possible but in a dream world…) so you can benefit from both programs.

Some lovely examples are being able to view the page in multiple windows, each at different widths, plus the code, all completely synced so a change in any of those views updates all the other views. Plus you can select a element (say a

tag) and then edit just that element. You can set the number of bootstrap columns visually by just dragging, etc. There are loads and loads of examples I could give so it would be easier if you just downloaded the trial and gave it a go. It’s updated not quite as often as Wappler but still very frequently so it’s likely to be a lot different to when you tried it before.

Still this doesn’t really answer my question - what styling options are currently missing (mentioned in a previous post) so that we can improve this?
The examples you provide are just explaining the different workflow in another product, which you are used to.