Anyone has comparision of Wappler vs ScriptCase

[bpj]

I would agree with you @JonL - PHP, as it stands, lacks some of the features of packages like NodeJS. I would say, though, that the one thing that would make Wappler truly future proof, is the ability to switch projects between server types.

I appreciate not everything would be able to be converted but the majority, particularly API/Library files are essentially JSON files that follow the same/similar structure. To be able to transfer those from a PHP project to a new NodeJS project would be sooooooo useful. I have several existing PHP projects (built before NodeJS was available in Wappler) that I would love to have as NodeJS but the translation of every server action on top of rebuilding the client-side is time-prohibitive at the moment.

[TwitchBlade]

Hi @YogiYang, I too looked really hard at ScriptCase before settling on Wappler this week. I had read that ScriptCase’s support was lacking and I have learned that the community on here is great at answering questions quickly. @Teodor has helped me several times this morning and it’s a weekend!

If you have any coding knowledge at all, I believe you will love Wappler. I hand coded for years and Wappler makes a lot of the tedious coding like the layout and database connections and queries much quicker with the UI. Especially if you’re someone like me who has used the Bootstrap framework for years. The code editor is excellent from what I can tell so far. I haven’t had to spend much time in it though due to the awesome UI. I used Coda2 for years but Panic just released Nova which I do not like so it was a perfect time for me to move to something else.

I suggest you download the Wappler trial. When you do you will get a code to the excellent getting started tutorials that @mebeingken created. I went through every one of them and they sealed the deal for me on purchasing Wappler cause they introduce you to the “Wappler Way” of doing what I’ve been hand coding for years.

[EngineerLead]

@JonL

To add to this if you have plans for your app to grow you should start forgetting about implementing backends in PHP. Even PHP with Wappler.

There is absolutely no reason at all to start in 2021 a PHP project unless you know for sure it is not going to grow(i.e. personal site).

LOL. I snorted coffee reading your comment.

You know old languages like COBOL have been able to scale and handle the needs of daily banking (in the order of million+ transactions) without any issues?

The code language in of itself is never the bottleneck. Poor caching / database is almost always the culprit … as you can easily horizontally scale with more servers for ANY language.

I’ve personally managed PHP web apps scale beautifully to handle close to million concurrent requests… so the direct attack at PHP or any language for that fact is misguided.

[sid]

Looks like you join the community just now to put your point forward.

Thanks for your input. Appreciate the enthusiasm.

[JonL]

Probably has a google alert and goes forum hopping spreading the sacred PHP word

Indeed. With money you can scale anything. Let me rent a $30000/month server to host my realtime COBOL app.

[michaeljn]

No. He didn’t ‘have a google alert to try convince people about php’. We’re far too busy.

I shared this post with him (it popped up in my Wappler ‘Community Summary Email’ as we’ve used Wappler for some projects and he’s been pretty impressed with the dev time, and given what he’s done professionally using PHP for large companies, I thought he’d find it of interest.

Among other things, we’ve also had discussions on MongoDB vs SQL (and nearly EVERYONE saying you MUST use MongoDB with Node (which again, is an incorrect blanket statement, but I digress).

His point is still relevant. Yours unfortunately, although maybe had the right intent, isn’t fully accurate.

You didn’t say there was other (ie more expensive) costs associated with php, which I’m not sure is accurate anyway, as php hosting is a dime a dozen and horizontal scaling is easy with a simple load balancer, vs using something like node for scaling, you made a blanket statement that php doesn’t and can’t scale outside ‘personal blogs/sites’.

This is a lie. It can and it does.

The last eCommerce company I worked for had 100ks of thousands of visitors a month. Did over $100mil in annual revenue all with a back-end of php (their entire backend warehousing was written in php as well).

Unless you call that ‘not scaling?’

The correct or rather more accurate answer is, what do you NEED your web app to do and thus which language would a. be possible to build that with and b. provide the quickest path to getting it out in the real world.

Are you building a scalable eCommerce solution? Something similar?

Or do you need something that is far more dynamic where using something like Node (and npm packages) offers benefits?

If someone knows php, learning a new language ‘just because you shouldn’t use php’ is a poor argument imo.

I went the node route by the way, because now it was either learn a lot about php or just go with node and do the whole JS thing.

Most people using Wappler also aren’t planning for a million concurrent users. I’d bet most aren’t even planning for 100k or 50k.

Because those that do would rebuild or highly customize a lot anyway. And if they’re planning for that growth this early, they’d have investor funding, be a dev building it from scratch and thus aren’t worried about the slight differences in server costs.

[JonL]

You were his google alert then

Guys, there is no point in arguing over religion. You are entitled to your wrong and long opinions.

Best of luck!

[Dave]

My two cents worth. In the past we run huge sites on PHP and ASP with hundreds of thousands of users (tens of thousands online at the same time, on MODEMS, and still these networks were fast (for the time) and with rarely any down-time). PlanetLAN and Sogamed (two of the largest networks on the internet at their time). We also run some of the largest gaming server providers and consulted with many developers (hosts and data centers, globally) including Barrysworld and dozens of others (with the full support of the Intel engineering teams in Germany, the US, and the UK). Scaling with both PHP and ASP was not a real issue, that is down to the dev-team (and we had among the best in the business). Came down more to database management than the language. Have also worked in the banking and financial sectors and as an IBM reseller (for about five years). Legacy systems still run fine and infact a well observed phenomenon is known as security via obscurity (not many who understand the old languages and systems around these days, and certainly not many malicious in their approach (script kiddes are pretty much unheard of). With IBM it was always a point that backwards compatibility would remain intact regardless of its age. To this day those legacy systems run a high percentage of the worlds most important and complex back-ends. Why? Well because they work, and as the old adage goes ‘if it ain’t broke don’t fix it’ remains in effect. As I said just my two cents. Not out to vex anyone or cause offence… Just personal experience.

And YES times change as do languages and trends. Things move on. Systems adapt. We adapt.

[JonL]

Of course, but you are talking about legacy systems that are not worth migrating as PHP is still popular. But let’s see if in a few decades these companies don’t have to pay premium as for Fortran/Cobol devs.

My point still stands: there is absolutely no reason at all to start a php project today except for familiarity with the language.

[Dave]

@JonL

My point still stands: there is absolutely no reason at all to start a php project today except for familiarity with the language.

Fair point but a lot of our undertakings are huge and already well established in what languages are used. New Projects no issue but adapting some of these complex and massive networks to run on new languages is simply unfeasible and the cost would be astronomical Jon (for some in the millions).

[JonL]

Indeed. I am not saying people should migrate. Just advised not to start

[Dave]

Very interesting discussion.

[mrbdrm]

@JonL
the reality is you have less than .0000001% of building a facebook successor
so why bother learning a new language?
i have never faced an issue with php. and shipped a dozen of them and the client is happy
and php do scale to cover your app even with millions of users. its not the bottleneck
and if you need more than that then im sure you have a lot of money and staff to do a custom solution since you can afford it. just like Facebook did.

but to throw years of experience in a programing language that will cover you 99.99%. doesn’t make since.

[mrbdrm]

@YogiYang if you want a fast solution then go with a RAD tool like scriptcase
if you want more customization then stay with wappler

[Dave]

Its tools for jobs. A mechanic does not use one single tool. They have a tool box full of tools. Some tools never change like a hammer and spanners. But then there are nail guns and adjustable air wrenches. The hammer still works. I like hammers…

Wappler is great for X, something else is great for Y, Wappler fits A, something else fits B. Yada yada… The right tool for the job in hand. Not all spanners tighten the same bolt. Exactly the same principle for software. There will never be a single tool that does everything. That is our job as developers to use the right tools for the job in hand. Anyone looking for a one tool does all jobs will never master their trade, inherently restrictive. Damn I hope my ramblings make some sense!

[JonL]

I don’t give rewards or hold grudges for taking or discarding my advice

But it is still so easy to tilt programming languages adepts that is not funny anymore

Guys, use whatever floats your boat. Wappler has you covered.

[Dave]

My personal example of if its not broken…

[JonL]

[michaeljn]

God. (no not the religion meaning).

You are entitled to your wrong and long opinions.

Please. What you said was factually incorrect and was steering the OP potentially down a ‘omg, I can’t use php because it can’t scale!’.

You made a statement, other people disagreed with you to help the OP, and you’ve dismissed that criticism with an absolute ‘you’re wrong’.

You’re opinion is just that. A subjective opinion. Not an absolute objective ‘right’ answer.

There’s benefits of using php as others above have pointed out. For many many projects php is still perfectly fine. There’s benefits to using something like Node.

This isn’t about religion. I, nor other’s here saying php is fine, are saying you MUST use php. Unlike you’re religion against it.

Just saying.

Cobol was highly specific to some systems for specific purposes. If you think php devs are going to be as rare as a cobol dev in a few ‘decades’. I’ve got a bridge to sell.

Anyway. As said. Decide what you envision your project needing and realistic expectations on how big it’ll get and decide on the language from there, if you have to.

But if the OP is familiar with php, just use it. Especially for anything anyone is going to build with Wappler without ever touching a line of code.