Advice needed: torn between Bubble and Wappler

[Liam]

Hello everyone, I’m here to create a webapp I can migrate my 500,000 member website to.

I have little programming experience, but using Bubble or Wappler, I believe I can build something very unique.

So onto Bubble:

1. I’m concerned about performance
2. The pricing system doesn’t seem to be fair, the jump from professional to production is mental
3. SEO is shit
4. No source code

That said, I find Bubble to be easier to use by far and I feel more confident in producing my app there.

But… I’m attracted by Wappler.

My main issue lies here

1. Lack of learning resources compared to Bubble and the overall learning curve
2. The showcase here doesn’t really attract me to the platform compared to the Bubble showcase

So, if I could see examples of nice, modern webapps made with Wappler and get some links to learning resources, including paid courses, that’d be a huge plus for me.

Also, what are your own experiences switching from Bubble to wappler?

Thanks,

[Antony]

Hi there Liam…

I made the leap a couple of months ago, after spending 18 months developing a very big app in Bubble and being a few weeks from launch.

Your list of issues with Bubble are exactly why I have moved. Add to #2 the on-going cost of hosting which I believe will be huge compared with Wappler.

I didn’t need to see anything looking attractive with Wappler, because I know that Bootstrap 4 will allow me to make my site as attractive as I can design it.

The learning resources are an issue… and I am a short way down that road… but every day I feel what I am learning is worth every single moment and going towards making an app that will look good, be rapid to develop and perform like a dream.

I’ve learned from Bubble that “no code” is a bad idea… some bits of your app just need code to make them work well and be easy to create and understand… the future is with “low code”, and with Wappler you can mix and match code and graphics to suit your app and your understanding. It is amazing.

I hope that helps!

Best wishes,
Antony.

[Liam]

Thanks for your prompt reply and also the message with learning resources.

Based on the fact you committed 18 months to Bubble and then decided to move here, I’m inclined to follow.

[t11]

As soon as you start developing everything will be making sense.
Most important is that you can design your database right.
Be ready to spend some hours on trying to understand on how to make something work. I mean you might be developing fast and enjoying but reach to a point that a minor detail might take hours to find out how to complete it. But again this is what happens with any type of programming.

Regarding the lack of learning resources I would suggest.

1. Search for your issue (most propably someone else has already asked it)
2. Create a topic and ask (usually in some minutes someone from the community will try to help you)

Welcome and enjoy the ride.

[dserber]

I’m not going to lie, the learning curve on Wappler is intense. Be prepared to have things that are super simple and fast in Bubble be complicated and confusing at first. I’m about two months in on my Wappler adventure. Some days I feel like giving up and returning to Bubble, where I’m more comfortable and invested about 3 years learning inside and out. But, then I run database lookups that are so fast they seem like they are going to come flying through the computer screen. Responsiveness is nearly perfect right after putting the components on the page. Version control, although complicated, is as useful as I can understand to put it to good use. And best of all, I’m not locked into a proprietary platform that can make/change their rules on the fly and without any advance notice.

As I think back on the past couple of months, I’ve come to understand that Wappler and Bubble, although similar in lots of ways, serve completely different markets. Bubble’s approach is to make programming complex apps intuitive for non programmers. They approach programming from a non programming linguistic perspective.

Wappler is made by programmers from a programming perspective. This keeps much of the advantages intact that you get from straight programming: speed, flexibility, freedom. But it’s only intuitive to people that have a programming background. And since many of the people on this forum come from a programming background, you’ll notice that things that are obvious to them and not the rest of us mere mortals are kind of glossed over or assumed that we understand. But, everyone here is so helpful and they need people to help bridge the gap between the programmer mindset/knowledge base and common/novice programmer. Everyone working together will make Wappler more complete/well rounded and expand the market. But you should definitely prepare for some rough spots and know that you are an early adopter helping to make Wappler more intuitive to non programmers.

[kfawcett]

To add to @dserber’s excellent rundown, the initial speed you get with Bubble will cost you significantly over the long term if you’re building a complex app. Simple things like trying to remove a few 1000 records from a table will take you an absurd amount of time to remove. If you rely on server processing (think of an app that uses lots of API workflows) then you’ll need to pay many multiples what it would cost if you managed the infrastructure yourself – think a difference of $200-$400 per month, or more. If you’re wanting to make a page/group/div’s height a percentage (i.e. 100%) it is impossible without using javascript. The lack of standard frameworks like Bootstrap may seem to make designing pages quicker at first in Bubble, but when you want to apply a simple change across multiple pages you quickly realize what those initial quick actions cost you when developing something more than a minimal viable product.

Bubble is a wonderful tool that I spent many years building on, but the performance issues haven’t improved over the years, instead you’re required to increase capacity or upgrade to a higher plan just to allow your app to function. This unfortunately is the downside of vendor lock-in. You are at the mercy of any changes they decide to make. If you don’t like it, then the 100 of hours that you’ve spent building something is lost as you must start over using another tool.

[Liam]

Thanks for the great responses everyone. I’m committed to learning Wappler now.

[t11]

You won’t regret it.

[Dave]

I’m committed to learning Wappler now

Welcome to an amazing community of users. You’ll find all the support you need right here. Don’t be embarrassed to ask what you may feel are silly questions. Don’t be afraid to rant occasionally as all is forgiven. Be prepared to watch as your feedback is discussed, and quite often, deployed to the product. Everyone here can have an impact on Wappler. The team behind Wappler are always on hand. Support does not cost a penny. Then when you have got to grips with Wappler you too can help the next user.

[max_gb]

I’m here to create a webapp I can migrate my 500,000 member website to.

You haven’t described what your webapp does but if it is even slighty heavy on the I/O side then a Bubble production plan is probably not suitable. You would definitely need to look at a dedicated plan which would cost $$$ maybe $$$$ per month.

As many have said already, Wappler has a larger learning curve but has many more possibilities.

Welcome to the community

[Antony]

“But, then I run database lookups that are so fast they seem like they are going to come flying through the computer screen.”

Love it @dserber.

[Liam]

So I’m looking at designing the database before I purchase my subscription. I haven’t the foggiest where to begin. Any recommendations?

[psweb]

Easiest start would be MySQL as a database language.

It’s probably the most common amongst the users here so you will get the most support for it.

There are also many applications that help in making your database like phpMyAdmin as an example.

Maybe give us some more info such as.
Are you a windows or mac user.
Are you running on a local test environment like wamp or mamp or planning on running docker, or do you have a hosting server you could use instead.
Is your final hosting provider running Apache, windows, nix.
Do you have any background programming language preference like php or asp

With a few ideas from you we can try give you the best start

[w.fly]

@Antony, @kfawcett

Hey guys! I’ve been on the fence for the past few months and I’m about to trial Wappler. Been an avid Bubble user for the past 3 years. I very much trust y’alls input on this matter as I know y’all were both very very deep in Bubble and contributed for so long - Contributions that really helped me grow over there.

I’ve read through this thread and wanted to get y’alls (apologies, as a native Texan, when I type “you all” , it reads like a mistake so I fall back on “y’all”… haha…) take after 6 months as to how your learning has progressed in Wappler.

Why I’m here: I’m looking to take one of my Bubble MVPs and develop in Wappler as a production ready web application. I reached a point with my Bubble MVP where it looked good enough to go to production… But the performance just wasn’t there. Couple that with the multitude of outages, me being locked into their hosting, and lack of access to the raw code, I just can’t provide the Bubble solution to an Enterprise client. Not to mention, the 4-5 second page loads and capacity spikes are killin me. So I’m hoping Wappler will be the tool of choice for taking the MVP to production rapidly.

As some background: I do have a few years of PHP/MySQL experience - Along with a full team of software developers at my organization who can setup a solid LAMP server for me.

[Antony]

Hey Wes, thanks for reaching out to us and trusting our opinions!

My recommendation is simple.

Just do it.

You won’t look back.

I left for all the reasons you describe in your message, and they are all now solved as I finalise my re-build in Wappler. The sense of freedom, control and speed is amazing.

The learning curve is probably going to be a bit longer than you may expect. Wappler support is great, but when you move from Bubble you have to learn new ways, and some parts of the Wappler product they still have to improve to make it more intuitive for new users. But we will all be here to help you along the way.

In terms of learning:

• You most likely won’t need to use PHP or Javascript.
• Knowing MySQL will be very useful, but you may get away without using it now the new Database Manager is here in Wappler.
• You will need to know HTML pretty well.
• You will need to get a deep understanding of Bootstrap 4 for the layout - and CSS to tidy up the parts that need tidying if Bootstrap 4 can’t quite do what you need.

In terms of the trial, learn Bootstrap well first, and get a LAMP environment all set up so you are ready to hit the ground running.

Any other questions, please ask us!

Best wishes,
Antony.

[kfawcett]

Just do it!

The Wappler team is pushing out tons of enhancements. Performance should be blazing fast compared to Bubble as you are in control of hosting and, outside of the Wappler components for App Connect and Server Connect, it’s all php, asp, or js.

As for the interface in Wappler, one thing that took me a while to realize is that you build from left to right (i.e. create a Server Connect on left panel, then add to items on right panel).

[w.fly]

@Antony @kfawcett Fantastic!! Thank y’all very much for the fast response. That’s the push I needed to make the plunge. Looking forward to getting started

[sitestreet]

I’ve never used Bubble so can’t comment at all on the transition but I would like to simply add that the learning curve can be a bit steep but once the way it works makes sense, you will be flying. I am now in the situation where every client who asks me to make changes to a site I built them in the past, I’m desperate to say “let me rebuild it in Wappler”. In fact, I’m currently rebuilding two fairly large sites in Wappler without charging the client a penny because I know it will benefit them, and me, in the long run.

[StevenM]

hey @w.fly I am a newbie to Wappler with more than 3 years with Bubble and have removed for the same reasons you have detailed.

Wappler will help meet your requirements and you do have access to the code and now they support Nodejs it is a more viable proposition.

A couple you things to keep in mind, as others have said it is a steep learning curve and will take you a month or two to get up to speed. There are a few frustrating things about Wappler, but just ignore them and try and work around them. I am sure the Wappler team will eventually work it out for themselves (a bit like the bubble guys in the early days) but at this stage they have a focused view, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

This is not like the Bubble community, although they are very helpful to point out the errors in your ways The majority of users have a history elsewhere, so make sure you are very specific in your questions and with a background in PHP and MYSQL it should serve you well!

In your first weeks of discovery just post your questions here in the Bubble to Wappler community as we understand what you are trying to transition from.

I would spend some time learning bootstrap, the visual designer is really rudimentary and pretty much just a preview tool and you are far better learning bootstrap and coding the html and css using a combination of the available Wappler bootstrap elements and custom css.

Overall after a vast search online for other alternatives, Wappler is the best of a new set of tools hitting the market at the moment. I am sure it will get better, and I am sure that other tools are on the horizon, but from my own research the code Wappler generates for you could be ported else where if better tools become available. Not that you would want to, but it is good to know that you are not locked into one provider.

Overall, I would say give yourselves a 12 month commitment with Wappler what everything you create belongs to you.

[w.fly]

This is great advice @StevenM - Thank you! When I started walking through it all last night, I was very pleased. Reminds me of the old Dreamweaver days - Except much better haha…