Welcome Bubblers! (An honest review)

Coffee Lounge
#143

Hello @HappyBaz, I am a fan of MJ De Marco (read his 2 books). :smile:
If you are talking about control, then the best way is to hire a developer and create your web app. You have complete control of the source code, the logic, the interface, and the output.
But then again, this may be costly and may take a longer time compared to using low-code/no-code tools like Wappler. Drag-and-drop is still easier and quicker than hand-coding.
I have checked other low-code/no-code tools like Radzen, Scriptcase, Bubble, PHPRad, Caspio, Zoho Creator, etc…, even the costly Servoy, OutSystems, Kony, and WaveMaker (have only tested Radzen, PHPRad, Bubble, and Zoho Creator). And I learned that you can not get everything you want in a single solution. There are always limitations, a need to sacrifice something to get a feature you want.

You have to sacrifice some things in using these tools like for example hosting, integration features, database support, direct modification of the source code, even the control on the interface.
Some even requires you to learn their framework or even their own programming language/syntax. Lansa has its own language if you want to hand-code. Also most of the hosted online tools are priced by number of developers, users, and/or the size of the database, or the number of records and pages.

With Wappler, you have control where you want it hosted. You have control of the interface and the way you want it to look like. You can modify the source code directly (HTML only). You will be using a universal language on which lots of documentations and guides are already available. It supports the majority of popular databases. If you can hand-code it in HTML, then you can do it in Wappler.
Of course there are still limitations. You have to design multi-tenancy yourself. You need to manage your hosting server(s). You need to design your own database. Etc. On the positive side of these limitations, you will have complete control on them if you did it yourself. :wink:

Also keep in mind that most of your time will be used in designing the app rather than in coding/building it. Coding/building will be a breeze if you have a good design in the first place and a good database design.

It is a fact that you have to start from somewhere. There is no tool where you can create something by just registering or installing it. So take your time to learn a tool. It will not be a time wasted. If you are going with Wappler, then you’ll need a basic understanding of HTML. If you are familiar with HTML, then it will only take a short period of time to create your app. If you need help, the community and the Wappler Team are here for you.

Hope this helps.

4 Likes
#144

With yesterday’s docker release for development this post came to mind as I remember I was briefly involved :smiley:

What I really want to stress to people making the change from Bubble to Wappler is that it’s not really if Bubble implements it or doesn’t.

It’s the paywall. As you probably know Bubble has several pricing tiers. So imagine that I’m completely wrong about my post in Bubble forum and they do indeed add it(but they won’t). That would be great of course for bubblers(and I still count myself as one).

But the last development improvement they added(“versioning”) was only for their production tier. 475$ PER APP!!! They later backtracked and added a light “version of versioning” on their pro tier but that is 115$ again per app.

So with Wappler you have versioning(real versioning) and Docker in the same tier and not behind a huge paywall.

Mark my words. In time Bubble will turn into a new Outsystems and will forget about creators and move to enterprise.

6 Likes
#145

Thank you @zitroware, That was very helpful.

I have been looking into @JonL’s suggestion of using bubble and then his later comment of again considering Wappler. Where I am at right now is not deciding between Bubble and Wappler but rather between Wappler and something like EasyLMS or Wordpress with a bunch of plugins. Bubble (learning and using it) seems like a waste of time…in the long run.

Using something other than Wappler might be something I do if I decide that getting something launched sooner (even if the site / app is different from the main functionality I envisage) is most important. And then as soon as possible get a real developer or start using Wappler and build it better at later date. Hiring a developer is not possible right now, food is more important. :slight_smile:

Using another (quicker / easier) option to launch does not sound appealing though, for these reasons:

  • I will not have learnt much about anything so integrations and choosing settings for security etc etc, plus dealing with updates and problems, will have me lost.

  • I will not be able to create the look and more importantly the functionality that I want (perhaps).

  • I lose control.

So, it looks like Wappler is at the top of the list again. But I have a few questions after today’s efforts learning about databases. So I think for my site/app MySQL sounds right. But then I need Navicat or perhaps (because it’s free) HeidiSQL to program and manage it?

Today I took apart my MS Excel spreadsheet that has the basic functions of what my app will do and changed what was basically one table into many sheets to represent all of the relational database’s I would need. I also learnt today that a query in SQL takes the place of my formulas in Excel. As you can see here, I am a complete beginner…but SQL seems easy enough for a few basic commands…I hope…

Do I use Wappler to build the site / app, HeidiSQL to build the MySQL database? Then I choose a web host for the site, like Cloudways, but also choose Azure or Scalgrid for the database host?

What are the etc? Is there a good book or site that can really give me the whole puzzle, a dummies book perhaps?

I know I’d love to learn all of this stuff and become an efficient user of Wappler. To understand all that goes on behind the scenes of a web-page and app is interesting to me…I just hope it doesn’t take me 3 years going down rabbit holes before I launch my site.

Again, thanks to all in advance for any help / advice. I also new to forums so I may be out of line here…just let me know.
Cheers,
Baz

1 Like
#146

You can use either of those if you want. I use MySQL Workbench, it is also free.

Yes

Most website hosting companies provide both web hosting and integrated database hosting as part of the same package.

One thing I would like to say is that you can completely build a website using Wappler without understanding the behind the scenes workings. For example, I know that Wappler connects to my database and interacts with my tables to insert, update, list, and delete data. Do I know how it does it? Not at all. :slight_smile: but it does it and that is all that is important to me.

#147

Thank you @scott.

#148

sooner you start, faster you learn.
yes, wappler has a learning curve. but if you burn the midnight oil, it’ll be worth it.
am an accountant by education, but now thanks to wappler (and @sid) i am a full time full stack developer. (note: i was familiar with very basic HTML, CSS and SQL before starting with wappler).

there are wappler docs. there is this awesome community.

and there video lessons:
https://wapplerunwrapped.online
https://www.learnwappler.com
https://wapplervirtualacademy.com

welcome and good luck.

2 Likes
#149

Hello @HappyBaz,
I am also a newbie in creating web applications. Though I have background in some programming and scripting languages, I still need to lookup Google and post in this forum for some tasks and questions. My plan is to gain experience first before creating a SaaS application. There are people here that may have already created a SaaS application whom we can ask for help. Fortunately, there are businesses out there that are reluctant to go online. These businesses are my target for on-premises web apps.

As you already probably know, it is good to dip in the water and start as soon as possible. We all learn along the way. And with Wappler, you can start and make mistakes as quickly as possible and learn from these mistakes. :slight_smile:

#150

Hi, and thanks for the replies.

I will dive into Wappler. yeh.:checkered_flag::mount_fuji:

I watched a couple of videos on full stack development today to understand more but these were geared toward a programmer using code. see: https://youtu.be/UnTQVlqmDQ0
It helped, but a lot still goes over my head.
Is there a video or other resource that gives me the complete picture of full stack development using a tool like Wappler?
I’m someone that needs to see and understand the whole picture first so I know that where I start from, and what I do, is the best way forward (and not waste time in the long run).
Cheers

#151

the video lessons links i shared above will help you to get started with Wappler.

#152

In addition to that, there is a pinned topic here in the forum:
https://community.wappler.io/t/wappler-learning-resources

#153
#154

Just want to share a great blog article from @mebeingken and his experiance in going from Bubble to Wappler. Thank you for sharing Ken!

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#155

Great post @mebeingken !

2 Likes
#156

Great post @mebeingken!

As a “recovering” Bubbler :smile: , I am super excited to learn Wappler and have the ability to use web standards, choice on how to manage my site/infrastructure, and the ability to build for multiple platforms/UIs!

7 Likes
#157

There’s nothing stopping anyone from posting their Wappler project onto GitHub either, just be sure to include an exported SQL schema.

1 Like
#158

More drama is about to explode on Bubble forums. They just unveiled the “Pioneers Program”.

Or maybe no drama…but come on! I prefer those beers in the Netherlands that I read about.

#159

Perhaps I’m jaded, but I see this as Bubble getting free labor for their biz dev department, just like they use the forum as free customer support.

1 Like
#160

My thoughts precisely. I mean the program is nice and I don’t see why they wouldn’t do it. The problem are those expectations. WOW…I wonder what they expect from their actual paid employees :smiley:

#161

I think they are asking a lot from folks but I think Bubble is assuming these “pioneers” can just increase their market share and build a business of their own while they are at it. Kind of like Amazon is doing with local deliveries but at Amazon is willing to pay.

I do wish the wappler community was larger but it will get there.

#162

Since taking on investment several weeks ago the DNA of Bubble feels like it has changed. What was once a platform that championed builders, listened to their community, and put their customers first feels like it has been replaced with a self serving strategy/philosophy.

Are they just trying to get free work from the community? Maybe. Before the pricing fiasco I would have considered applying to their new Pioneer Program but now I just don’t trust them anymore and I’m no longer willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I’ve gone from being a Bubble promoter, which I happily did for free without any desire to be rewarded, to a Bubble cynic.

Maybe I’m just still reeling from the sudden and drastic price adjustment but it actually seems tone deaf and not self aware for them to be asking for things from the community.

I’m really liking what I see with Wappler. The founder is engaged with the community, there are substantial updates released regularly, the community is helpful and knowledgeable, the technology is powerful, and the business model is more to my liking. Here’s to hoping Wappler will stay more true to it’s founding roots than Bubble. Please don’t break our hearts @George :pray::pray:

8 Likes