I will keep that in mind. That is why it is very tough to make the decision. At the end of the day, there are still a lot of consideration. The greatest concern is that I cannot produce the app at all or take a very long time such as a year.
I am now learning Bootstrap as recommended before using Wappler. Seems like bootstrap studio is like another low code platform or editor. It is more complicated than Bubble and more towards front end. I also stumbled across React. I think Wappler is simpler than both Bootstrap and React. Probably, has more function too.
I am really trying hard to learn and hopefully in a shortest time possible
If Wappler can be like Bubble but no code lock in and etc, that will be very ideal.
I will try my best to learn as much as possible these few days before I make any decision. Roughly to gauge whether I can develop the intended app or not by using Wappler (More thorough learning after that when I decided to choose Wappler.)
@sitestreet I really appreciate your reminder that it is not so easy as perceived. Thank you so much. It is really important point for me to take note before making any decision.
Gonna chime in on this thread with a viewpoint I have yet to ever see on this forum. Weāve been supremely blessed to start off with a very successful app built initially on Bubble. Iāve been Bubbling for over 2.5 years and prior to that, 15 years as a data developer. Weāre now evaluating Wappler as a mid-step in pipeline development for ideas that will have more persistence prior to conventional build hand-off.
Everyone talks about and fears the vendor lock in. But really, thatās not as much an issue as everyone fears. We pay literally a personās salary for Bubble hosting on a top-tier, but itās not as much a worry when your revenue out-scales it. And Bubble is not nearly as limited as is mentioned either: thereās workaround for almost everything an app could need to do AS LONG AS ONE DOES NOT BUILD USING Bubbleās internal DB.
The part you really need to think hard about at the onset is actually ācode baselineā. See Bubble isnāt code, itās an interpretation engine of your logical configurations. And, to me, the absolute greatest strength to Wappler is the code interpretation for the most part does not change. Whereas, in Bubble, they are constantly evolving the productā¦ and the code interpretation along with it.
So, if you build on Bubble, you can enjoy the speed of development and rapid turnaround of user testing and input, but do realize that if you succeed in deploying a highly-utilized (and large) application, that you will forever be regression testing it (or needing to hire regression testers). Because what worked one day, may very well not the next day, as the interpretation engine slowly shifts over time. In Wappler, deploy once to a set box configuration and you theoretically could walk away forever and be fine (security caveats aside).
Bubble = strong at onset. Wappler = strong when productionalized competence really counts down the line. Food for thought.
I agree with a lot you say here, but a few things I don't get...
Why is the vendor lock-in not an issue? Even with your data hosted elsewhere, your logic and presentation layers are all trapped in Bubble with no way to move. That seems like lock-in to me.
Spending too much for something should not be based on the revenue, should it? There are definitely good reasons to over-pay, but having revenue to cover it shouldn't be one of them.
This was actually a huge reason why I left Bubble. I was constantly having to find workarounds. I felt I was spending more time trying to make simple things work in Bubble. I have no problem spending hours and days to figure out simple solutions to complex problems, but I really hate it when my toolset starts getting in my way (like having to use an external database, when the entire platform is supposed to remove that need.)
But again, I really feel like you are presenting a good counter argument. Bubble and Wappler serve different needs, and both have their strengths and weaknesses. I see having the choice as a good thing. 3 years into Wappler, and I'm never going back to Bubble...but that doesn't make Bubble a bad product, just not a match for me.
Appreciate the reply. And please, in no way was I evangelizing Bubble, please donāt read that incorrectly. I personally value both toolsets for their very different reasons, and am eagerly anticipating Wapplerās continued growth trajectory. And actually, all your points are correct:
It is vendor lock-in. My point was whether or not that is as big of an issue as some claim it to be. Long-term, we havenāt felt that to be the case. As your application scales, you absolutely will have to rebuild almost everything except for your DAQ layer, physical data model, all logic stored within the DB, etc (assuming my warning in CAPS was followed) in order to move out of Bubble. So one must decide: do I build to negate that at the onset, or go for more rapid dev and off-put that lift when the scale warrants against a well-validated (!) idea.
Agreed again. Spending too much on anything shouldnāt be based on revenue, except when revenue is based on time to market or user feedback turnaround. For someone in the shoes of the OP, Wappler WILL carry a higher time-cost from scratch to dev completion, and that must be solemnly accounted for in any careful decision.
And finally, agreed again. Bubble offers 2-second one-click solutions and plugins to a lot of more complicated, code-intensive actions. The down-side of that of course is a lot of trial-and-error when itās time to do something extra-special or non-standard. Take a fly-out menu for a basic example. Itās literally 4 clicks. Wappler on the other hand, requires you to still hand-code major portions for this to work, and for someone in the OPās shoes, thatās gonna take time to get working right at a standard-level. But the level of control at the end of it is light-years ahead (and did I most-importantly mention, will be on a non-drifting code interpretation haha). But this particular point has been beat quite heavily to death on the forum elsewhere.
Edit: Disregarding the OPās position, for me personally, if I know the idea is well-validated, is going to persist for a while (and I want to set it and forget it and take a break on a beach once in a while without worrying whatās gonna stop working suddenly), warrants the extra stand-up time due to a complex under-pinning requiring load-balancing / replication / SSL shenanigans etc, then the choice is gonna be Wappler.
Thank you so much for your wonderful post. I agree with you.
The big question is whether are we able to move all the content of the database when we decide to move out of Bubble. Can we move all those photos, files, uploaded pdf and etc rather than just csv?
If it is possible, then, for myself, coming out with a MVP using Bubble or even for the first year of operating the app maybe a feasible idea. In the meantime, I will learn more about Wappler.
I really don't know how long it takes for me to learn Wappler and use it efficiently. As I have extremely little knowledge about web development and programming, it may take quite long. FYI, I don't even know what is Docker and etc. I just heard of bootstrap less than a week ago. However, all these can be learned in time.
In the event, I can't migrate all the data out of Bubble, then, there will be no choice but to start with Wappler even at the initial stage.
I highly recommend you contact their support and ask them if they allow export application data (such as photos, uploaded files, etc.)? You can tell them it's for backup purposes, it's not like you have to tell them "I'm planning to move away"
And, of course, you wish to do such backups at a regular time interval
Thanks for the information. I have read this article already. Very informative.
In fact, because of this article and all those posts from Bubble forum and here, that I am seriously considering Wappler.
I am still not giving up yet. In fact, I am still learning Wappler and hope can get a grasp on it.
This is a serious issue. But there's also the scenario that Bubble can change their pricing policy whenever they like. I saw they did this recently and the ongoing costs increased considerably. I know that any supplier can change their prices but at least if you're talking about hosting then you can find another host but with Bubble you're absolutely stuck. You either pay more and continue or you rebuild the app from scratch using something like Wappler.
I agree with you. This is another important issue.
I read that too.
In fact, it is very obvious that Wappler is a better choice. Just that, in my case, I have to undergo a long period of learning. Well, these few days, I am learning and it is indeed very challenging.
Even with the guidance of videos, it took me quite a while to understand how to add CSS style to the footer. And the CSS script is provided inside the video.
Wappler is much more complicated and has more functions. It seems like many steps are required.
If you have the time to invest then I can absolutely say it will be worth it. Something that can be picked up quickly but, by that very nature, be limited. So a learning curve is a good thing in the long run.
I wish you all the best. The community here are the best so Iām sure if you have any questions, youāll get some good and fairly quick answers.
Thank you so much for your encouragement. I agree with you that it is worthwhile learning.
Yes, the community here is really helpful. I feel really grateful about that.
I am planning to move away even before I really use them.